Posted by Dayo Benson, Deputy Editor on
Since he assumed the leadership of the Performing Musicians Association of Nigeria (PMAN) over a year ago, a lot of innovations have been brought into the body to the extent that the corporate world is now doing business with it.
Since he assumed the leadership of the Performing Musicians Association of Nigeria (PMAN) over a year ago, a lot of innovations have been brought into the body to the extent that the corporate world is now doing business with it. This, the PMAN president says, is because a Charly Boy is in charge. In this interview with Sunday Vanguard, Charly Boy speaks on his numerous achievements in PMAN and why he fell out with popular female musician, Onyeka Onwenu, whom he says is bitter over his successes in the association. Excerpts:
HOw has it been like since you assumed the leadership of PMAN. What are the challenges and how have you been able to overcome them?
It's been very challenging as far as I'm concerned. My position has put me back in the classroom in the sense that there are so many things I never thought I could do, I'm doing them now.
There are so many things I've learnt along the way in dealing with the multitude of different interests, different people from different ethnic backgrounds, different intellectual backgrounds, being able to pull all that together and being able to balance politically and being able to, without being too dictatorial, educate and carry along my colleagues for them to understand that the status quo, definitely, must change.
We must make progress and being able to convince a lot of them that the only way we could be strong is for all hands to be on deck and everybody trying for the first time to make sure that his enterprise is used positively so that we can see a lot of light shine at the end of the tunnel. And that has not been easy because sometimes you are frustrated, sometimes, you are misunderstood, sometimes you have some people who have since the inception of PMAN, been known as trouble makers, but they can only go so far with this tenure because I think I'm intelligent enough to know when and how to deal with the likes of those people.
Thank God, they are in the minutest minority. Part of the challenge was to change the mindset of my colleagues from this negative and beer parlour intrigues and politics to a more progressive and constructive partnering. And I think in a lot of ways, we have succeeded with the way my colleagues bombard me without anything to go by and a lot more people are becoming more interested in the union.
A lot more people are beginning to ask questions and it didn't use to be like this in the past. You can go there for one whole year, it would be like graveyard, no activities, nothing is happening. But right now, thank God for controversy, thank God for that dynamism in the new leadership.
Not only are the members flocking to their union, but also the corporate bodies and the business people are beginning to see some kind of positiveness about the new PMAN and everybody is down for the business, so they are beginning to be interested and see how they can collaborate with PMAN in different business ventures.
Would you attribute the razzmatazz and the flurry of activities in PMAN to the fact that it is Charly Boy that is in charge now?
Yes, I will say a lot of things have happened because of the brand, Charly Boy. First of all, he is dynamic and his nature can never say no or can never say die.
It was based on all of these that they came to conscript that image, I don't think they wanted a Charles Oputa to come and be PMAN president, they wanted a Charly Boy and it was based on this reason that they came here and said they want Charly Boy. And I had told them, ‘listen, do you know the implication of getting a Charly Boy?' The implication is that he is never going to do what others have done, he is going to revolutionise the whole place, so it would never be business as usual and for that place to progress, a lot of toes would be stepped on, are you guys ready? Some of those people who came are the people who are on the other side of the divide today.
And I told them at that time that one day, I would remind you about this conversation that we are having in my sitting room because for anything to work, there has to be a radical departure from what it used to be. And that is what I know the brand stands for, change in all ramifications. Change in our mental attitude, the way we approach issues, change in our thinking and all of it. Well, they got what they wanted but unfortunately, for some people, it's like they are feeling so left out and they are right to feel like that because this system can no longer tolerate any greed, tolerate any kind of corruption or tolerate selfishness. If I'm not there, if I'm not part of it, if I'm not making some kind of money, then we should scatter everything. And I'm saying in my own tenure, nobody is intelligent enough to scatter anything because we cannot come this far and make this kind of sacrifice and allow some monkeys to come and scatter it.
Intellect and wisdom
I don't have to fight them physically, I don't have to argue with them but I use my God-given intellect and wisdom to diminish them because what succeeds in life, I've come to realise, as long as your enemies keep barking and doing everything and you keep making successive progress and it's there for people to see, they'll get tired because all those agitations are not borne out of any positive thinking, they are not borne out of any drive that oh, let's make this union great for the generality of Nigerian musicians, they are just borne out of selfishness and greed and intense bad belle and that does not work in this system any longer.
If you check my CV, if you check my history, everything I've touched have turned to gold. I've never failed in one single thing and I'm not about to start doing that now. I don't know how to fail, all I know how to is to succeed. I might not be a good administrator, I don't claim to be, so I get professionals who can work with me. I don't know anything about keeping (financial) records, I'm not an accountant, so I get the best of guys to do that. And I want to let you know that as I speak now, Akintola Williams has become the chief accounting officer in PMAN. So, how good can it get? So, I get all manner of professionals to work with, which has never happened in the history of PMAN.
Because whoever was at the leadership position wanted to have some monkeys they can work with so that they could do whatever they liked or they saw themselves as the entire picture and that is one thing I want to start to remove myself from, because I know the image of Charly Boy is too strong, too powerful and yes, I dare say that a lot has happened because of the tremendous goodwill that Charly Boy has built for himself all through the years and it is this goodwill that is paying off.
You said the same people that came to conscript you to lead PMAN are now on the other side of the divide. What brought about factionalization in PMAN?
There is no factionalization in PMAN and please get your facts right and do your investigation properly. If a minute few decide to be on the other side, that is not factionalization. When we talk about factionalization, we are talking of about maybe if 60 per cent decide to be on one side and 40% said oh, we have decided to be against the 60 per cent, then it comes close to that. Not when you have like three per cent. Who are these people? They are four, and that is it. So, please try to educate the Nigerian people.
If you say factionalized, it's like the whole bunch are on that side. Please if you know anybody more than these four people, tell me, there is nobody except these four people and these four people cannot be ... they are not even in the minority. So, as far as I'm concerned, they are inconsequential. Two of them were part of the people that came to conscript me, why are they on the other side? It is simple! Because I said in my own time, there will be no loitering around and by the way, for starters, these people are not members. If they are members, tell them to show you their new ID card because this is a new PMAN. All members of PMAN must be card-carrying, must have their insurance, must have their number, ask them their registration number, they don't have it.
So, if you are asking me to join issues with these renegades, it's insulting. They are not even members so how would they know the runnings in PMAN? They are not members for crying out loud.
And my argument has always been this, let's take for one mad second that maybe I'm guilty of some of the things I've been accused of. Now, if it is their union and they are interested in making this union move forward, is there no way they can call me and we can get together and they say Charly Boy, I don't think you should have done this for the interest of this union. Because what I'd wanted to do, I understand the politics of playing in a team, I understand the power of being in a team, I mean in a strong team and I'm such a person that I like to work with people and I survive because I have people, I survive because I decided to surround myself with very intelligent people, if not more intelligent than I am, and that's the only way I can make progress.
No man is an island, I don't claim monopoly of anything, I cannot work on my own, I'm not a solo artist, I'm a team player. Why upon all the good things that have happened and they see nothing?
Why couldn't they have called me if they meant well for this industry? Because at the end of the day, it's not about individual, it's about the industry and that is what gets me so bitter. Because in all of these, I don't see those renegades talking in a way that listen, we want to save our industry, it's all about personality.Yes, not everybody needs to like Charly Boy, I don't care who likes or who doesn't like Charly Boy. Charly Boy means different things to different people, as far as I'm concerned, you can jump off the bridge if you can't stand Charly Boy, but you cannot stand in Charly Boy's way of getting to his destination or whatever he has set out to achieve.
Intense bad belle
They didn't stop me when I started, what makes anybody think they can stop me now, it's too late. So, these are people are filled with intense bad belle.
If PMAN is actually one as you
said, then why was the Association of Female Musicians (AFEM) formed?
Hmm ... intense bad belle again. You see, when I see intelligent people do stupid things, I'm inclined to think their background is worrying them. Like I said, if it were other people that set it up, there wouldn't have been any problem. PMAN is the only association that deals with musicians or that controls the business of music and I thank God that in the next few months, PMAN will be as strong as any ministry in this country, because I'll see to that. Anyway, they don't have respect for anything, because Charly Boy is there. So, they don't have respect for PMAN, so they can start anything.
It is this same Onyeka that got people and said they were going to see Mrs. Obasanjo. At the zero hour, they now got all female musicians together and got them in a bus only to go to Abuja and be bounced at the gate; meanwhile, Onyeka and others stayed behind in Lagos. They never bothered to tell them that the appointment had been cancelled. The people now came back and asked, ‘Madam, what happened, you guys didn't even show up?' The only explanation she gave was the fact that Charly Boy might have sabotaged it. What is my own? Now, I appreciate the situation Mr. President, Obasanjo, is in.
How difficult it is to manage a lot of people, especially when there are people who want the status quo to remain. Onyeka has tried to run for chairman of a local government, she failed twice, she tried to run for PMAN president, she has always failed. These are people from less background that I have no respect for. Where are they coming from? So, when they do this kind of thing, I understand. And why won't there be bad belle? Do you know how big the Oputa clan is?
On one side, you see Justice Oputa, if he is not doing Oputa Panel, he is in the Confab, he is talking, he is on TV. On the other side is his boy, Charly Boy, if he is not running around with this bank, endorsing that bank, making so much money here and there, why won't you have bad belle? Because it's beginning to look like Nigeria is run by the Oputas.
That's their thing. And let me tell you another thing about their psychology, they cannot figure out why this character, Charly Boy, that is so casual, that looks so unserious, and you know that is the best way I become very potent, everything I do is from a playful perspective, so nobody knows how serious and how deep I am. But it's a facade that I've decided to keep, I don't have to come out and be talking that I'm this, I'm that, no! I have to do my things quietly.
So, they cannot even over their dead body imagine that this
seemingly unserious character has made such an impact and so great stride in PMAN, they cannot fathom that. So, they want to always recall that negativism, that misconception about the Charly Boy that people used to have 15 years ago, 20 years ago, to say, ah, he's unserious, eh, he can never amount to anything. But that is what they say but look at me today.
That is what people thought, that is how they felt in those days, but look at where I am today. Where I am today has given credence to, and justified the fact that, with thorough focus, with consistency, with believing in yourself, that you can achieve whatever you set out to achieve and this message is for the youth, without being corrupt, without having to do anything that is illegal. Because I remember days in this same house, that I could not put food on the table, and I could not pay my rent and that majority of Nigerians did not even believe in the concept, or the brand or the image that is Charly Boy. So, they can't imagine how far I've gone.
For Onyeka, anything wey im de talk, na for im pocket because she is not in my way, she can never be in my way. They can only make noise, and I've decided to be punishing them. And you know how I'm going to punish them? Like I said, all of these is intense bad belle, oh Charly Boy is making too much money. Why I no go make money, I never suffer reach? I make genuine money and I'm transparent. I've been making money before I became PMAN president, out of all the years of my suffering, planning, strategizing and re-strategizing. They were thinking that this enterprise will crumble on Charly Boy because I used to have one bad habit which I've cured myself of.
I used to be very hot tempered. If you tell what I don't like, I can slap up, I can fight with you but I've learnt to control myself, I've learnt to take all that my gra gra and put it in my head. I've learnt to be intellectually aware of my surrounding, to know how I deal with people from up here (points to his head), not about gra gra. That one, they don't understand.
I don't know what Onyeka's problem is, but Onyeka as far as I'm concerne,d is a spent horse whose time has run out. Look at me, for the past 20 years, I've kept this brand alive, artistes come and they fade away, I've always remained, I will always remain. I will always remain because I'm intelligent enough to know how I strategize, how I remain focused, because also I've been involved in the welfare of the less privileged. So, I've decided to be punishing them by making more money, by making more progress and more success for the good of everybody else, including myself.
Is it true that you went to the embassies to frustrate visa applications of AFEM members and that you told the members that it is either they pull out of AFEM and join PMAN or they would be denied visa?
That's a stupid propaganda by the Onyekas of this world. I did not do that. What I did was to write to all the embassies and said, if anybody comes as an association and they don't have PMAN ID Card, we are not responsible for such individuals. And this is another way of arm-twisting or whatever you want to call it, not the problem. Because this regime has always been shouting it to the roof top, you have a union, people should come back, if there is something that is not working well, it's when everybody comes inside that they'll know what is not working well, then they can make corrections.
Most of the things that have helped us to succeed are not solely our own ideas, they are ideas that are brought from outside and the world thrives and lives on ideas. And because we don't have that monopoly and because all we want to do is to succeed, we are looking and hunting for these ideas, superior ideas, good ideas that can benefit everybody. Thank God, a lot more people are showing interest in their union and a lot more people are coming. And WAPIC Insurance have decided they were going to be the official insurers of PMAN.
They came to us because they knew we had big numbers but before they came, there was no record of how many we were, that was why we said we were starting from the scratch. We said for every card-carrying member of PMAN, you must be insured. Now, we have a computer for the fist time in the history of PMAN, we have records and for the first time in the history of PMAN, we have an accountant, for the first time in the history of PMAN, a personality like Akintola Williams. For the first time in the history of PMAN, we are not going cap-in-hand begging government to do things.
The only place where we need government and in which government has cooperated so far, thank God for Mr. President, Obasanjo, and all his able lieutenants, to make sure that there are laws on ground that would empower PMAN the more and cut off piracy, this is what we need the government for. But I'm saying we can create our own world and we are doing just that.
You've talked so much on transparency and honesty in your leadership, but there is this allegation by Onyeka Onwenu that you turned down her request that the money realised during late Tina Onwudiwe's fund raising to save her life be properly accounted for publicly by the two of you. Could you put the record straight?
If she says that I'd understand. Why I'd understand is that before Tina died, you remember Onyeka and Tina had this long quarrel. I was the one who made them up at Niteshift when Niteshift used to be at Opebi Road. Tina was quite reluctant. Before then, Tina had given me the history of Onyeka. Onyeka's problem was that she wanted her brother to be the accounting (officer of the fund).
I spoke to Tina before she died, this is what is happening in Nigeria and Tina made one sentence, she said to me - you know how close I'd been with Tina; Tina has one chapter in my coming new book because we were very very close. Tina was almost like my blood sister ...
Onyeka's attitude during Tina's death was appalling, it was a chance to make money. How can Onyeka be coming, they want money for this, they want money for that, are we going on a jamboree and because I said no, and because I said no, to her brother holding the money. I mean, why would the brother hold the money? Me and Onyeka were signatories and one Mrs. Adesina, Joan Odwyer, there were five signatories and we made it in such a way that money could never be withdrawn unless the five people signed.
Onyeka has this habit, once she is not in control of anything, she says, hey, she doesn't know what is happening there. If you go and check publications in The Guardian around the time Tina died, and you (the names) of all the people who donated money and how much they donated and what the money was used for.
Onyeka was becoming difficult but we went ahead to publish and then she came out, saying, eh, why don't you join me and I told her to her face in front of Tony Okoroji, when we went there to talk about the matter, I said there was one person in everything, somebody is in charge, I was in charge. I was in charge because of what Tina said to me before she died.
Then, she was fit enough to talk to me on the phone, she said ‘Charles, it's you I know, whatever, I hope you're the one in charge'. That was what Tina said to me and I think all that was said because she also knew her sister Onyeka, she knew the stuff she's made of and I did not know Onyeka till Tina's incident and I had to call her one day and said, this is our friend now, why are we wanting to do it like we're doing a business here? How much did we raise, it wasn't even up to three million or thereabouts.
Tina's bill was well over that amount. We were even upset that we couldn't raise as much to pay the hospital bill that she was owing, not to talk about money being left over to give her children. As far as we were concerned, it was about Tina getting better to show that okay, we tried our best, maybe, I knew the time was up but I thought we could buy more time on her behalf.
Is it true that you attempted to assault her physically when a peace meeting was brokered and it was Tony Okoroji that held you back?
I don't need to assault her, all I need do is to annoy her with my progress and with my success, I don't need to physically assault her. I don't do gra gra anymore, those days are gone and I know how am going to punish them, I'll make more money, I'd make the kind of money they could never believe, I would make the kind of success in PMAN that they would never ever imagine. And I know that is the thing that kills them. Putting it simply, that is the rock bottom, they can't believe Charly Boy can come this far, I'm effective where I am.
I might not know how to add two plus two, I might not know how to be a good administrator, but let me tell you something, I've learnt how to deal with people, I've learnt how to deal with my opponents and I don't need to carry okada people to go and make noise, I don't need to come and show person power, I don't need to make gra gra, I need to sit down in my room and think intelligently regardless of whatever is happening around me.