Posted by By KUNLE ODEREMI, OBAFEMI OBADARE and OLAYINKA OYEBODE on
Lagos State governor, Babatunde Raji Fashola, SAN, who clocked 45 years on Saturday, shares some of his experiences and the challenges of being the chief executive of the cosmopolitan state with KUNLE ODEREMI, OBAFEMI OBADARE and OLAYINKA OYEBODE on the eve of his birthday
Lagos State governor, Babatunde Raji Fashola, SAN, who clocked 45 years on Saturday, shares some of his experiences and the challenges of being the chief executive of the cosmopolitan state with KUNLE ODEREMI, OBAFEMI OBADARE and OLAYINKA OYEBODE on the eve of his birthday
Certainly, the answer is no. It was never an ambition for me and when you look at the state, and in contemporary time, probably since independence, only about 13 people, including myself, have been privileged to hold that very exalted office. It is a story that nobody could have written. My ambition 10 or 15 years ago was just to be a very successful lawyer.
Did you actually go all out to study law, or some circumstances conditioned you to do so?
I am particularly fascinated by the works that doctors do, and even till today, my doctor is the only professional, whose fees I don‘t negotiate. At one time, I wanted to be a medical practitioner. In those days, the curriculum was designed in such a way that if you were not good in mathematics, you could not do science and if you could not do science, then there is no way you could study medicine or other science-based courses like engineering. I think it was in my Form Three that I was advised to drop from the sciences and move to the social sciences and the arts. But I have always wanted to be a professional, and law appeared to be the only professional course that was available without demonstrating any serious competence in mathematics. But I still find out at the end of the day that I still have to do with mathematics; I cannot run away from it - I still have to go through budget figures, I have to watch revenue.
Growing up, who were the people you regarded as your role models?
There were many role models, but may be in terms of people who shaped my attitude to life, it is my parents - my father and my mother. I took away very simple principles from them and it has not failed me - contentment, purity of heart, fairness and justice at all times, and always speaking the truth, no matter what will happen. Professionally, I remain in reverence of the achievements of Chief F.R.A. Williams. Politically, I remain in awe of the achievements of people like the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo, who in spite of his departure from this environment, still stares us in the face everywhere we go, for what he had done and for what we have failed to do to build on what he had done.
As a child growing up, could you recall occasions when you received cane lashes from your parents for some bad behaviours?
Oh, yes. I was never spared by my parents. There were two things I did not do as a youth- I did not do drugs. As a child, my mother terrified us so much that you would just go mad if someone sniffed Indian hemp near you. But any other pranks that you could probably imagine, I did and I got beaten for it real hard, but more by my mum than my dad. My mum was quicker to react correctively; my dad was more patient and educative. My dad only punished you for a mistake that you repeated. So that means, you can commit 10 different offences and you don't get punished. He believed that, well, this one was a mistake, but any of them that repeats itself, you get thoroughly beaten.
Which would you consider the most challenging decision you ever took while growing up and as a governor?
Well, there are a few decisions; when you locate them in terms of what could have happened and what could not have happened. I think that when you look at my decision to go and study law at the University of Benin, at the time that I took the decision, it was monumental in terms of all of the consequences that later followed. I left Igbobi College in 1982 with a A Levels. I did well in two subjects; I did not do too well in the third subject. And I applied to study law. I was offered admission to study economics and I declined it that I wanted to study law. Then I got a politically motivated admission to the then Bendel State University, at Ekpoma. I had an uncle who was a strong member of the defunct Unity Party of Nigeria, so I guessed he got across to the late Governor Ambrose Alli, and I was offered admission to study law. But it was a new university, so I said no. That was in 1983, which meant that I would have graduated in 1986.
So instead of entering for law or economics through Direct Entry in 1983 and finishing in 1986, I now came back (to Lagos) to write JAMB and came in as a prelim student in 1983. Of course, nobody could see the future, but it was very monumental for me, because by the year I graduated and finished the Law School, and went for the NYSC and came back to Lagos, I did not have a job. So I took up a temporary job in Apapa. But by December of that year, I resigned my appointment that this was not what I wanted to do; I wanted to practice law. That was the time the law firm that I later worked with was formed. One of the members of that law firm used to be with Chief Rotimi Williams, but that was the year that firm was formed. So it was as if they were waiting for me. And that was the Law firm that built all my professional knowledge as a Lawyer, and I think I have been most fortunate to have been a member of that law firm. Now, it was in that law firm that I met Wale Tinubu, who came in, I believe during his youth corps, and we just hit up like fish and water. We did not even know that our parents were childhood friends. Through him, I met his uncle, Governor Bola Tinubu, who then was working at Mobil.
And of course, you can tell the story today. That is how our paths crossed. So if I had graduated in 1986, I would not have been in that law firm, Wale and I would not have met at the time we did, and probably, I would not have met Governor Bola Tinubu at the time we did.
So far, as a governor, what is that most challenging decision?
It is difficult to identify the most challenging. But I think that there are quite a number, but I will take the decision to implement the BRT as one of them. Because I faced a lot of threats.
Threats, by who?
I don‘t think the sources of the threats are important, but they were there - that they would sabotage it, that it would fail. I think that is all that I want to say at this moment.
Did those threats come from opposition parties, or stakeholders?
As I said, I don‘t want to dwell on the source of the threats, but they were there. But I was persuaded by the vision behind the project. You see, I was part of the team that conceived the BRT under Governor Bola Tinubu, so I was persuaded by the logic. I was involved in very extensive debates in the exco then, as chief of staff.
Then, even the process of setting up LAGBUS, immediately Governor Tinubu envisioned it, he just said, ‘Look, Chief of Staff, this is what I want. Go and get at work.' So the contract, the incorporation of the company and many other things, I was involved at every stage. So, the idea and the need for a mass transit system is something that I could not argue against. It is something that is a compelling need in Lagos State. So I just said well, in spite of the opposition, we would do it. And I once rationalised to myself
that, yes we are in a democracy and therefore you can never have unanimity. And when the majority of Lagosians will benefit from the project, that means it must be right. The decision making process for me, is always what is in the best interest of the majority, what is in the best interest of Lagos. And that is why till today, I have not left the BRT. Even in our exco, people raise all sorts of problems.
What if this happened, what if that happened, and I said to them that even the most successful bus systems in any part of the world today, did not start without problems. So we need to learn. We are still learning and as much as we are ready to learn from our mistakes and also learn from the mistakes of others, we should not have too much problem. Then at the time when we were constructing Ikorodu Road, the traffic was bad. Everyday people spent six hours, people spent seven hours. Remember we came in May and all of this was going on towards the end of the year, when there was Sallah, when there was Christmas, people were moving goods - hampers, sallah rams, in and out of Lagos. So everybody was moving and it was a chaotic situation. People were in pain, but I would not give up, because I was convinced that that would bring the solution. After that, there are still some problems, I still get text messages, people complaining that the buses were not clean, the buses were not washed. We got people to wash the buses and now we are now planning to build automated bus washing facility that can wash about 100 buses in an hour. Every week in this room, I hold meetings with officials of BRT, LASTMA, the security, every two weeks, Saturday by 3pm we are here. What problem did you see? What problems did you encounter. I bring out my own emails. I bring out copies of text messages and we analyse them one by one. What can we do, to make this project more painless? So, a lot of things are being done.
Any other challenge?
The other big decision, of course, is also transport-related and that is the construction of the Ozumba Mbadiwe Road. While we were trying to construct the road, everybody said the contractor was bad. I nearly fought the contractor, but the man told me: 50,000 vehicles pass through this road everyday, there is no alternative. I will finish it quicker if I have the approval of the governor to close it down for three months. Let everybody stay at home. So we had to work at night and almost every Saturday night I would drive there around 11pm to see how it was going. At that time, we wanted to move back people‘s fences on that road. Nine people took us to court to stop it. I was suffering quietly, thinking and praying. There was one property there; they put soldiers there so that we would not be able to take down the fence. I said you have to kill me. I have to take down this fence. I am not building this road for myself. Even your property will benefit from this road. But I thank the judiciary for the social awareness and the benefit of the road that they saw, they did not grant any injunction to stop us.
A lot of people believe that the BRT alone cannot solve the transportation problem of a mega city like Lagos. What is your government doing about the metro line and the much-talked-about Fourth Mainland Bridge?
By the time you see contactors working on site in a project, that means the work that is left is just about 30 per cent. Because projects start in meetings like this. You conceptualise it, the architects go to do the design. The physical planning authority provides the right of way. They enumerate which property would go. They begin to look at compensation issues. Is it in the budget for that year? If it is not in the budget, then you can't move.
So, right now, we do not want to unreasonably raise the already high expectation of us. But we are working on rail. Just last week, we approved the final draft of the design. That is to tell you that, by the end of August, the full design and cost should be ready. From Okokomaiko to Eric Moore, about 27.5 km of rail. Simultaneously, we are dealing with Iddo to Ijoko on the outskirts of Ogun State. The design for that is being taken simultaneously with the one for Okokomaiko. And then, there is a link from Iddo that will bring the rail through a bridge to Marina. Now, that process is one where Lagos State, Federal Government and Ogun State have to jointly finance under the Lagos Mega city arrangement. But we have taken the responsibility to do the design. Because without the design you cannot plan. But we are moving towards the closure of the design. Then we can award it and hopefully, we will be able to break the ground.
What would you consider as the major problem of Lagos State?
I think it is still the population.
Why?
It is a huge responsibility. It is a problem and it is an asset. There are so many interests to serve, to protect and preserve and that is why when people talk about those glorious days of Lagos, that was when Lagos was 500,000 people. Now, it is about 18 million and it is growing at the rate of 1 million people per year. So the city does not sleep. That is what we want, a 24-hour city and that is a lot of responsibility for those of us at every level. When I open my phone in the morning, before evening I get at least 230 to 250 text messages. And I must respond to as many of them as I can.
What is the usual reasons for the messages?
A lot of things. I think it was on Monday, I left my phone on at around 5pm, because I was trying to catch up with my files, mails and all that. And when I checked by 9pm, I had 233 missed calls. Between 5pm and 8pm. Of course, these are calls that you also have to try and respond to. You don‘t know why they are calling you. It may be fire. It may be an accident. It may be disaster. Some call me to thank me for doing their roads. Some call me to say we can't pay school fees we need help. So I send the adviser on education to see if they can grant them an education grant. Some call me to say the contractor doing their road work had abandoned the site for about three days. I have to send somebody to go and see what is happening there. Some have health issues. Those ones, I send my doctors to go and see them. It is a lot of issues.
In times past, local governments had a lot to do like tarring roads etc, but that seems not to be the case any more. What is the issue with the local government?
The first issue with the local government is funding. The second issue is the constitution. This is the only federation that I know that puts the local governments in the constitution; I may be wrong. But if you are talking about a federation, it is the states that are federating to create the federal government. Now, you put all the local governments inside the constitution. You now give them the same responsibilities. All of the 774 LGs have the same responsibility - parking, motor park, market, sanitation, primary school education, primary health. But they don‘t have the same problems; they don‘t have the same opportunities. So they cannot have the same responsibility. It is like somebody coming here now and saying all of us must wear size 10 shoe. It would be too small for some of us and it will be too big for some. If you are talking about market, Oshodi has a huge market. Ojoo has a huge market, and motor park and all of that. The Central Business District, Lagos Island, we give them benefit for advertising fees.
Most of the industries are down because the central government has the responsibility for companies and all of that and it can‘t give the support. If the revenue is located in the local government in a state, then, as you are providing the roads, you are providing the drainage and health care for the employees, the revenue you are getting from the profits of the companies you can use it to sustain the facilities. Now you give them responsibility for primary education. They pay school teachers. You give them responsibility over primary health care centres. Where are they supposed to get the money from?
But the money usually gets eaten up by corruption.
Wait a minute before we begin to talk about corruption. Now there is a revenue allocation bill, planning again to reduce the money to local government to 17 per cent. Is that not the government that is closest to the people? Why are we taking away money from the government that is closest to the people? Then let us look at in order of the pyramid. It is the local government that is closest to the people, followed by the states and the last is the federal because it is in Abuja. And that should be, for me, the order of allocation of revenue. Now you cannot say to me that because there are issues of corruption, you now take away the money. Why are companies not closed down? Are there no corrupt officials in the companies?
The answer is not to take the money away. The answer is to make people accountable for the money that comes to them and we have the processes: the police, ICPC, the court. But have we exercised the political will to make public officers accountable? The solution is not to take away the money. When you take away the money from the people, you have killed the economy, nationally. That simply is what happens.
What are the critical areas that you want to be addressed if we are going to have a truly workable constitution?
I think, first of all, there must be mutual understanding of where the problem lies and what democracy means. The government that is closer to the people should exercise more power, because only that government can respond to the need of the people promptly. The FG cannot do all the roads that all the states need. What it does at every point is to link one state to another by trunk roads. The FG cannot manage traffic in the state. The FG cannot clear refuse in the state. It does not have the capacity to manage all the health centres in all the 36 states. It does not have the capacity to manage all the primary schools in the federation.
You just spoke of the need to pay tax, but many Lagosians believe that they are being over taxed.
I don‘t think Lagosians believe that they are being over taxed. I cannot too often emphasise the fact that with the mandate of Lagosians. This government has been given a responsibility: Go and improve the quality of our lives, and for that we would build roads, we would clean the city. We would clear the refuse. We would provide schools. We would provide transportation. We would provide security. Where is the money going to come from? Today, all that Lagos State gets from the Federal Government as every month's statutory allocation is in the region between N4bn and N5bn. Out of that the wage bill (because again, we are complaining of unemployment, so we are employing people into the public service. The population is growing, so you need more hands to respond to that population). The wage bill now is N2.8bn every month. So on a bad month when I have N4bn, I am left with N1.2bn. And it is from there I'm expected to do all of this: provide vehicles, provide allowances for police officers who don't sleep, to keep you and I safe, fuel their vehicles, fuel the LASTMA vehicles and motorcycles, fuel public official cars, who are going to inspect this and that, fuel ambulances. Since when modern government was conceived, taxation has been with us.
Now in terms of multiple taxation, I don't believe you can have multiple taxation unless different governments are taxing the same head of revenue. That is what is called multiple taxation. If I say you are paying income tax for example, if I collect the income tax and the local government also comes to collect the incomes tax and the federal government also comes for the incomes tax, that is what I understand as multiple taxation.
Once that does not happen then it is not multiple taxation, because don't forget we have three levels of governments with different responsibilities.
Talking about the planned local government election in the state, many people believe that your administration is stirring another controversy with the issue of 57 local government.
Who are the many people?
The opposition parties.
Where is the opposition?
Are you saying we don‘t have opposition parties in Lagos?
Most of them are now in the Action Congress. Don‘t you see them coming to AC in their thousands?
The constitution recognises 20 LGs, but your administration is trying to organise election to fill the 20 councils and additional 37 LCDAs Why?
The constitution is not a perfect document. The Supreme Court has interpreted that. Yes, in black and white that is what you will get. The Supreme Court has said that the LGs that were created were validly created. The Supreme Court is the only organ in this federation that has the power to say a section of the constitution is void. Indeed and as far as I'm concerned, the Supreme Court has amended the constitution. Because if you say there are 774 LGs in the constitution, and in interpreting that constitution, you say 37 have been validly created, indeed it means that you have 774 lgs plus the 37 validly created ones. That is what it means, and only the Supreme Court can say this section of the constitution is null and that is what it has said. You will find some inconsistency in the constitution, because they were drafted by human beings and therefore subject to error.