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Ebenezer Meshida, a lecturer in the  Department of Geology of the University of Lagos, came to limelight four years ago when he was  pronounced winner of the  Nigeria Liquefied Natural Gas, NLNG, Prize for his work entitled: Solution to Road Pavement Destabilisation by the Invention of “Lateralite”: A Stabilising Flux for Fine Grained Lateritic Soils.” In this interview with Anthony Akaeze, assistant editor, Meshida recalls the effort that went into producing the work, the challenges and frustrations he has faced in his bid to get government support. Excerpts:

Newswatch: It’s been four years now since you won the NLNG award with your research work. How would you describe the impact?

Meshida: Well, the research, unfortunately, has not had any impact on any aspect of the country. It’s very unfortunate, but that’s the situation.

Newswatch: Why is that so?

Meshida: I think our political setting has a lot of problems. There should be political setting, academic and social setting in any normal society but we find ours to be very different from the normal. The political setting is one thing, and the academic setting is another. But there’s hardly any concordance which should not be. Academic setting should be deep into research to solve societal problems. But here in Nigeria, the academic research is little recognised. That is English, “little” recognised. We have not said, not recognised. When, in the universities, research is made, it is not for the researcher to go physically to implement his findings. He does the research, sponsored by public funds, because he’s in employment paid through public funds. He uses his training, long time training and years gathering experience amid frustrations and carries out the research and concludes it and publishes and people critically look at what he has done. And if at the end of the criticism or appreciation, people say yes, you have done something, then, the political setting should come in to say, bring this thing, is it worth the while, will it help us and if so, use it.

Newswatch: So, you’ve not heard from government since the last four years.

Meshida: I’ve not heard anything from any government arm or official. I have been the one pushing it, through governors, through their secretaries and commissioners. But nothing has come out of it. It’s been silence. When I push, they appreciate, they clap, they rejoice. After that, silence. And all I will get in return is, produce your material, and then we will see whether we will buy.

Newswatch: Is it possible for you to, on your own, produce the material?

Meshida: That is the dilemma. If we look into history, those who invented electricity or train system or any aspect of scientific life, were they made to produce their products? I wonder whether the world would be worth living today, if they did that. I, as an academic and researcher, I have no such funds. So, how am I expected to get and gather one hundred million Naira to produce what I have invented so that government can come and see whether they want to patronise it? It’s a dilemma.

Newswatch: But in the absence of government patronage, have you tried to reach out to foundations or private organisations?

Meshida: At the moment no, but some of my colleagues have suggested it. So, I’m now busy writing a proposal to reach out to one or two foundations.

Newswatch: It’s surprising to hear that government has not shown much interest because when your research work came to light, it was seen as something that could help check or reduce the potholes on our roads, if the flux or powder, like you said, is mixed with the soil to ensure that we have smooth engineering materials for road construction in the country. What does that tell you about government in this country?

Meshida: My personal opinion is that our governments have experience, very deep experience in poor governance. That’s my opinion and I’m very strong about it.

Newswatch: And do you also think that it’s because you are a black man, a Nigerian that produced this, that’s why they probably shunned it?

Meshida: It is not about being a black man. To link it to my earlier view, there’s nobody called government; government doesn’t signify anybody. It’s just an organisation and it’s not an abusive conclusion. I think ours here has not been a beneficial form of governance. It’s just governance for individuals simply to become rich, and what they do with the riches is negative. Awolowo talked about beneficial socialism in those days. There’s nothing beneficial here, whether democratic or aristocratic or anything. So, it is not about being a black man, it’s about governance and what they do or fail to do.  What does the government do to benefit the people? That’s the question.

Newswatch: Your research work brings to mind the quality of materials used by the construction companies in road constructions. What has been the reaction of perhaps, some of the foreign construction companies, to your findings?

Meshida: Yes, we have a very long way to go as far as this scenario is concerned. When we talked about development in Nigeria or Africa, development does not signify the construction of infrastructures by foreign people. It is counterproductive, that is not development. When I bring Germans, French, British, Americans, whoever, to construct my road for me, I am a fool; I’m just what we call in Nigeria, a miscreant. That’s what it signifies. Look at the setting. We have so many universities in Nigeria producing civil engineers, geologists, architects, name it. We have them in abundance. What should they do? They are not to be involved in road construction because Julius Berger is here, because Hitech is here, because RCC is here. So, they are in charge, I am not incharge. Chinese is constructing my road for me. He has no understanding about my soil; he has no understanding about my environment that is tropical. He has caterpillars and others, so he brings them and uses my poor soil to make my poor road for me. And he takes my billions and goes away. Now, I’m to use my poor roads that will damage my vehicles,  that will kill my people…

Newswatch: There’s this opinion that a lot of the local contractors have not  been able to prove their worth or make a case for  themselves whenever they are offered the opportunity of handling some works for the state or federal government, which makes people to think that the foreign companies are better.

Meshida: Em….this issue will open a can of worms. This subject you have mentioned will open a can of worms, if we want to address it.

Newswatch: How do you mean?

Meshida: The Nigerian contractors are handicapped because they are forced into corruption of a huge dimension. The foreigners are okay and can accommodate the level of corruption. When you want to award a road to a contractor and there’s bill of quantities, the Nigerian contractor charges one billion Naira and the foreign contractor charges five billion Naira, and you award the contract to the foreign contractor that charges 5 billion because you say he’s much better…  let us not ask questions about how the five billion Naira is utilised, let’s just stop at that… The one billion Naira charged by the Nigerian contractor does not accommodate all the overhead, and all those other things, so he loses out. But if by any mistake the job is awarded to him, he’s in a tight corner, because half of that amount will go into anything other than road making. So, he’s forced to abandon the job. How many such contractors have been prosecuted in our country? It is because we all know what has happened to the one billion Naira. We all know it; but the five billion Naira charged by the foreigner is evenly distributed, and he’s able to do the work to conclusion without molestation. Even sometimes, the five billion Naira is not enough, he easily gets a revision upwards, even times five and he’s given. And sometimes the foreign contractors do not have the courage to ask for the upward revision, it is Nigerians that advise them to ask. We know the details; I personally know the details because I also do contracting, although in my specialist field, not in road construction. When I see what happens in road construction, I shake my head. So, the issue has nothing to do with expertise of local or Nigerian contractors at all.

Newswatch: So, what is the advice to government in that respect?

Meshida: Well, you see, I think I can only advise those who have the ears to listen. It is futile to advise those who have already made up their minds and become deaf to whatever you are saying. There’s no way I can spend the number of years I’ve spent in life anymore. I have but little time left and if I cannot tell my country the truth then I’m  stupid. So, it’s better to tell them what they are.

Newswatch: Government is supposed to be for the people but we find a situation where people are alienated from the government in this part of the world. What really is the problem?

Meshida: The problem is caused or shared by every Nigerian. Every Nigerian, because, you know, in our society, it is the rich that is hailed, and anybody, or let me say, 99 percent of people aspiring to go into government have alterior motive.  Look at our society today, my village or town, when you signify interest to go into politics, your first problem is to find money to bribe people, to cook food for people on daily basis and to start talking vainly and to start telling lies of all dimensions. If you cannot do that, nobody will elect you into any position. But if I can tell lies, if I can blackmail, if I can steal money and bribe people, then I will become popular, and any post I ask for, I will be given. And when I get there, what do I do? If I have paid so heavily to get to this position, then I don’t have to look at your ugly face at all. I can carry your money, go to South Africa, institute a refinery there, buy airplanes, and become managing director of anything and that way I’m alienated from the people.

Newswatch: So, there has to be a change in orientation?

Meshida: There has to be a change in orientation of every Nigerian.

Newswatch: Have you had the opportunity of meeting with some officials of these, perhaps, foreign companies, to discuss one on one with them what you think your research work could bring to bear on their work in Nigeria?

Meshida: Yes, I’ve met a managing director of one important foreign company. We were speaking one on one the day after the award. And I sort of asked him a very critical question. I said: “MD, why are you constructing bad roads for Nigerians? He was a bit quiet and then said, no, we don’t construct bad roads for Nigerians. We only construct what you designed for us. We are here as contractors, we are not here as your consultants, and we want to say that the ministry of works is very competent as consultants, and what they designed for us is what we construct for them. You see, that’s a very political statement. He has said the ministry of works is competent as consultant, which means the ministry of works can design very good roads and they as contractors are well equipped to construct what has been designed. So, why is Nigeria suffering the effects of bad roads? Nigeria has bad roads: pot holes, the destabilisation, the wearing away immediately after construction. Now, no foreigner will come here to construct roads that will not go bad or that will pass the test of time. They are not interested in that. They are contractors, they want money. You expect them to construct roads for you that will last 20 years without maintenance? They don’t want that. They see the flaws in what you have designed for them and they are happy to construct such things and they are waiting for a few days, on your order, to go back and start repairing. In fact, they make more money repairing than constructing, whereas I expected the ministry of works, in my own case, to summon me, and say: you have done something, tell us, what’s this thing. After telling them, they might say; okay, we are going to test. And they go and do their test, if it’s bad; they come and say, lo, you said you’ve done something, it’s very bad. Or if it’s good, they say, well, it’s good, let’s hear how we can use it.

Newswatch: In this case they didn’t even call you?

Meshida: They did not; I was the one that went to them. When I finished the research in 2001, in 2004, I wrote to the minister, Ogunlewe. He passed my letter to FERMA and gave them instruction to look for me. FERMA came to Lagos, we discussed, I was invited to Abuja. I got to Abuja; I even brought samples of the material. They didn’t look at it.

Newswatch: Can you, for the benefit of some people who probably didn’t  know about your research,  say what your research work is all about and how it will help to prevent the potholes we get to see every now and then on our roads?

Meshida: In every country of the developed world- Canada, US, Britain, China, Japan, there are such stabilisers that have been made based on the result of research on individual country soils. You see, geologically, every part of the world has its own type of soils: temperate latitude, sub-tropical latitude and all that. The environment produces peculiar soils for each zone. If you bring the stabiliser made for Israel to Nigeria, it cannot work. Ogun State bought stabilisers from Israelis. They tried it, the first rain, everything went away. You see, you can’t do that. Your own soil type; our red lateritic soils are different from the soils in UK, Canada, United States or China. What is peculiar about our own, all those things have been noted through research, through my research and we have been able to invent this powder. When you introduce it to our own soils, reactions begin. And the major constituents of our soils are known, so this powder sets up the chemical reaction and makes the soil in such a way that when you compact it with the powder, water will not be able to disaggregate. That’s all. Very simple, but it was an agony to be able to come so far. It took 26 years of frustrations, of failures, to come into conclusion. All we are saying is that, put the powder into our different soils, and it will stop the reaction of the clay. Then it becomes a good engineering soil to construct your road upon; whether the place is waterlogged or not, that’s no longer your problem. When you use it in the way it’s been designed, even if it’s raining hell fire, there will be no more disaggregation of the foundation soil. It remains, and then your vehicles can run on the road without problems.

Newswatch: Did you test the research work anywhere before it was adjudged winner of the NLNG prize?

Meshida: We did not do the road construction testing, but in civil engineering, there are ways you test your soils and you can predict the response in engineering use. Such engineering tests have been done over a prolonged period; say 10 years, continuously after it was invented.

Newswatch: What is the average life span of a newly constructed road?

Meshida: The engineer can design a road and assign a service life to it. Service life means after you have completed a road in accordance with a design, if the engineer says it has five years service life, it means the road should be used for five years carrying the actual load it was designed for before it would need rehabilitation. If the engineer designed the road for 10 years service life, it means for the next 10 years, we should not have disastrous failures. Every important road needs such design and then you ascribe the service life to it. But, you see, to our dismay in our country, when roads are designed, we do not know the service life, and all we see, routinely, is that one month after it has been completed, rehabilitation begins. Erosion and the likes would begin. So, who is fooling whom? The powder is meant to prolong service life. We’ve been to the eastern states and all the states like Aba, Owerri, Onitsha and others that have very terrible soils. We’ve done the research of Aba and Owerri expressway and treated it with the powder, and if you see the way it responded to engineering test… very fantastic. We’ve gone to Yola and Maiduguri and tested the bad soils with the powder and have seen the excellent engineering test result. So, if only my country will say, look, do that for us, let us see it, to challenge me, then I can call my colleagues who are road contractors and spend my meager sum of money  and say, let’s do this for our country.                  

Newswatch: In the past, roads that were built, say, 30 years ago, were quite solid, compared to what we see now? Do you believe so?

Meshida: I do. It’s very, very true.

Newswatch: What has changed over time?

Meshida: Let me take the Ibadan-Ijebu Ode road that was constructed in the 60s. I think I was a student in the University of Ibadan but I can’t confirm the company that constructed the road but it was financed by the then Western Nigerian government. I knew when the foreigners were constructing that road and it was well done.  Up till today, that road remains stable. When it was newly completed, I was a post graduate student and was driving my Volkswagen car over it to and from as a student. So, I know that road very well. I travelled through it recently, it’s the same thing. It has not destabilised. So, your question is as good as mine. Why are our roads getting bad now? Even on the Third Mainland bridge, you will see potholes. How does potholes come in, on a bridge that has concrete foundation?  Something is wrong. A lot is wrong. Is there proper engineering supervision? Supervision is not just standing there to look at what is being done. That’s not supervision. Supervision, means that, as an expert, when you see anybody doing something wrong, you say stop. This is what you should do, correct it now as I’m looking at you. That’s supervision. Not just standing there and somebody brings some form for you to sign. These days, the foreigners are the ones who produce the forms and give to the supervising engineer to sign, even before the road is constructed. We know these things.