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Author: By Reuben Abati
Posted to the web: 6/17/2005 7:00:56 AM

'I HOPE it doesn't happen here?' 'What?' 'What has happened in South Africa?' 'Is it Nelson Mandela...?' 'No, it is not Nelson Mandela. You mean you have not been reading the papers? This week, President Thabo Mbeki sacked his Deputy. He went to Parliament, and told the South African people, that in the interest of democracy, it would be best to relieve Vice President Jacob Zuma of his responsibilities'. 'Yeah, I read that story. Such a thing cannot happen here. I mean, Jacob Zuma accepted his sack in good faith and even showed understanding. The interesting thing is that Jacob Zuma is a very popular politician. He is the Deputy President of the African National Congress and the party's strong man in Zululand. In 1999, he helped the ANC to keep Mangosuthu Buthelezi of the Inkatha Freedom Party in check. Before now, he was being tipped as President Mbeki's successor'. 'He has been sacrificed. Politics is like that. To look good at the G8 summit in Scotland next month, President Mbeki has had to sacrifice his Deputy who was merely implicated in a corruption case'. 'I don't know about your use of the word merely. What I read is that Jacob Zuma was implicated in a corruption case involving his financial advisor, Schabir Shaik. The man has been convicted, but the court ruled that the evidence indicated Zuma's complicity. President Mbeki had to ease him out to protect the integrity of his government. This is not just about the G8 really. The case says a lot about the health of South African democracy and the power of the judiciary'. 'That can never happen here. Can you imagine President Olusegun Obasanjo sacking Vice President Atiku?' 'Since Zuma was shoved aside, I have not heard of any protests by his kinsmen. If he were a Nigerian, by now there would have been complaints of ethnic marginalisation, and little talk about integrity and transparency'. 'My concern is that President Obasanjo may be tempted to do the same thing to Vice President Atiku, moreso as they do not appear to be on good terms?' ' Jacob Zuma is the leader of government business in the South African National Assembly? If he were a Nigerian, he would have turned the parliament against the President. In fact, his own faction of the party would have staged a walk-out. There would have been a stalemate. Even the lawmakers would have seen the crisis as an opportunity to collect bribe. But what has happened is that Zuma himself has voluntarily resigned from parliament'. 'Something tells me that President Obasanjo may be tempted to follow in the footsteps of President Mbeki. Now, it is South Africa that would shine at the G8 summit, not Nigeria, at least on the question of transparency in governance. What do you think?' 'If Zuma were a Nigerian, by now, the entire country would be on the verge of a clear and present collapse. His supporters would have been going around insisting that he cannot, and must not be punished for the sins of his financial advisor. They will even quote the Constitution to show that their man is innocent.' 'Are you listening to me at all? I asked you a specific question'. 'I heard you. The simple answer is that Nigeria is not South Africa. What has happened in South Africa cannot happen here. Besides, the Nigerian Constitution is very clear about the procedure for removing a Vice President from office. So, I don't see why you want to bother yourself. In any case, Vice President Atiku is covered by section 308 of the Constitution. He enjoys immunity. And nobody has accused him of anything'. 'Shaik was said to have collected bribe from a French arms company on behalf of the South African Deputy President'. 'So? Nobody has accused Vice President Atiku of collecting any bribe. So, why are you dragging him into this?' 'I understand he and the President are not on good terms. If the President wants to deal with him, all he needs to do now is to give him a South African treatment. You can at least see that in the past two years, the VP's authority has been whittled down. Even the recent coup in the PDP resulting in the resignation of the Executive Council of the party was meant to reduce his influence and embarrasss his loyalists. I won't be surprised if President Obasanjo begins to draw inspiration from what Mbeki has done, especially now that the whole world is praising Mbeki. Don't forget that two months after some Ministers were sacked in Rwanda, President Obasanjo did the same thing here' . 'It won't happen I can assure you. So, don't dream about the impossible. President Obasanjo himself knows that there is nothing he can do to his Deputy. There is the problem of ethnicity. There is also religion. And don't forget that Atiku is not a Jacob Zuma. Even if he does not want to fight back, people will fight on his behalf, and remind the President that he too collected money from people to build a private library.' ' Ah, I see your point. After all Professor Ango Abdullahi has granted an interview in which he says if the PDM faction of the PDP is reduced to a particular contest, the PDP will implode. Corruption is even very difficult to prove in Nigeria. Look at the Wabara and Osuji case. Nobody is saying anything about it anymore. In fact, Wabara and Osuji have more supporters and symphatisers than the President. People are saying how can the President collect N7 billion and claim to be punishing poor Wabara who took only N10 million, and Osuji who went to Abuja to enrich other people? ' 'You are even going too far. All the men who resigned from the PDP National Executive, the party is saying that they had to step aside because they mishandled money. Have you heard any one of them saying that this is not true? Even the party is saying yes, these persons stole money, but we won't put them on trial because the image of the party is more important. Whereas what they are actually saying is that we are a party of thieves and we are okay with that. The point is that we are just a different country. So, don't compare apples and oranges'. 'I give up. Because even the President, I don't quite know where he stands on some of these issues. When Chief Gani Fawehinmi decided to take him to court on the issue of the Presidential Library, his main reaction is that he is protected by section 308 of the Constitution'. 'The same Section 308 that he, the President, had questioned in the Dariye case? I thought he once said that nobody covered by section 308 should hide under it to commit atrocities, and that the Section should be expunged in a future Constitution'. 'I think his point really, is that he is entitled to the immunity offered by that Section until it is amended, or expunged from the Constitution. Anyhow, the matter is before the Code of Conduct Bureau'. 'Nothing will come out of it.' 'We obviously have a lot to learn from the South Africans. It is as if in any case of alleged corruption in Nigeria, we always find a way of avoiding the issues. Our President talks about corruption but he is the President of a self-confessed party of thieves. Only God knows the number of hardened thieves that are doing business with, or in the name of our leaders. You are quoting the Constitution. In fact, President Mbeki said he had to do what he did out of respect for the South African Constitution'. 'It is a question of difference in value systems. I insist that it is not fair to compare us to South Africa. Here in Nigeria, our leaders trample on the Constitution. They collect bribe and hope that nobody will talk about it. And we the people, we are not prepared for any kind of war against corruption'. ' We don't even believe in Nigeria. Look at Asari Dokubo, he is starting another trouble. In the Niger Delta'. 'By the way, what is the situation with Obong Chris Ekpenyong of Akwa Ibom State? Do you think he will be impeached eventually by the State House of Assembly? The man is being accused, among other things, of corruption'. 'Typical Nigerian story. I don't see what difference it would make whether the Akwa Ibom Deputy Governor is impeached or not. Already, the case is being politicised. In this country, a Deputy gets removed from office only if he has problems with his boss. If he is in his Oga's good books, even if he steals the entire treasury, nothing would happen. In the South African case, the President had to follow the promptings of the judiciary, principles and the media. So, if you are citing Akwa Ibom, then forget it?' 'I am just concerned. For example, I have read a story in which Obong Ekpenyong says a certain house in the United States that is being cited as his own, and against him, belongs to his son'. 'His 12-year-old son. That boy must be the richest young man of his age in Nigerian history. I am surprised that no newspaper has interviewed the boy yet'. 'You are even missing the point. Can a 12-year old boy buy property?' 'No. The House was bought in his name by a registered company'. 'Then, let the media lift the veil. Who are the people behind the company?' 'Our big problem in Nigeria is that we are insincere'. 'I believe that. Look at what happened on June 12. All kinds of persons started using the occasion to make statements'. ' Like who?' ' Can you imagine General Muhammadu Buhari carrying a banner for June 12, and offering a lecture about anti-graft processes? Where was he in 1993? Up till now, I have not heard anybody advising him to weigh what he says against his own antecedents.' ' Nigeria is like that. We have no memory.' ' Even General Babangida has been claiming to be a democrat. He blames other people but himself for the annulment of the Presidential election of June 12, 1993. The other day, he visited the Abiola family and went to see MKO Abiola 's grave. Can you imagine IBB as a tourist at MKO's tomb?' 'You journalists are part of the problem. You promote the wrong people, defend rogues and celebrate mediocrity. When I look at the media in Nigeria today, I no longer see the vigilance of old, I mean, the kind of vigilance that was demonstrated under the military'. 'Go on. I am used to that. It is always easy to blame the media'. 'The media has a role to play'. 'Yes, I know' 'I am not joking' 'Yes, I know you are serious'. 'You are not serious' 'Of course, I am'.